Episode Transcript
[00:00:22] Matt Sonnen: Welcome, everyone, to the COVID edition of The COO Roundtable. I know many of you have gotten back into the conference circuit and you've been attending many industry conferences. I have been hunkered in my house with tin foil on my head, but I decided to venture out and attend my very first conference last week, and of course, immediately came down with COVID. I apologize for my voice today, but I didn't want to postpone this recording any further as June was the first month that we've missed an episode in our three-year run.
Our two guests are very hard to pin down and we had to postpone this recording twice already, so I didn't want to postpone again just because my voice is a little goofy. Because Kristie and Melissa are so busy, they have really taken time management to a new level. We're going to discuss that along with some pretty cool things that both of them are working on outside of their normal day jobs. Let's get to it. Kristie Clayton is formerly the integrator at a wealth management firm and today acts as Integrator at iMatter and The Visionary Forum. Kristie, welcome to the podcast.
[00:01:27] Kristie Clayton: Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
[00:01:30] Matt Sonnen: Great. Joining Kristie is Melissa Bushman, VP of operations at AltruVista located in Houston, Texas. Melissa also uses the title of Integrator at the firm where she has been for almost five years now. Melissa has an incredible career story which I'm going to ask her about in just a second, but first let me just say welcome and thanks for being here, Melissa.
[00:01:51] Melissa Bushman: Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.
[00:01:54] Matt Sonnen: Great. Kristie, why don't you walk us through your career progression to where you are today?
[00:02:00] Kristie Clayton: Oh, yes. That's a great question. It's interesting when you look back at my career because it's clear that I've always been an integrator and I've always worked with visionaries. The real difference between my previous employment versus where I am with a wealth management firm and where I'm going is that we didn't have an operating system to really give us great foundation on how to work well together.
Once I found that operating system, and we just happened to use the entrepreneurial operating system or EOS, it really solidified for us roles and accountability, and it really was able to help us move exponentially forward. I've had an amazing career working in banking and credit unions and then I switched for a little while, thought I would want to do medical administration and learned not so much, so I went back to wealth management. I just really have a true passion for leading teams and developing and growing people, so an integrator role is absolutely perfect for me.
[00:03:03] Matt Sonnen: Great. Melissa, I alluded to it earlier but walk us through your career path that led you to AltruVista.
[00:03:09] Melissa Bushman: Absolutely. I came out of college and went into the management consulting world because I wanted to travel the world and gain all sorts of experience, and I did that. When I got sick of traveling, I moved more into a program and project management type roles and started running consulting companies, which I love doing. I was here in Houston so I was very embedded in the oil and gas world. Then I decided to completely shift gears and go pursue a passion because I thought I wanted to work in sports and entertainment.
I worked for the Houston Super Bowl Host Committee here in Houston, which was a lot of fun. I don't actually want to work in sports and entertainment so that's great. When I left that, I did some nonprofit work with a fantastic charter school here in Houston, but my love and passion is really small businesses and growing teams. I really wanted to get back into the world of growing small businesses and growing teams.
I found Ali, who is my visionary, through the EOS network. I had read Traction in 2015. I knew I was an integrator and I really just wanted to get back into that world and be an integrator. That led me to AltruVista and Ali here in Houston, and I have been with them just shy of five years now. I am loving it. It's a great experience. I get to work with business owners. They are our primary client. I work for a small business, so it really is the best of both worlds for me.
[00:04:35] Matt Sonnen: You mentioned EOS made famous by Gino Wickman. We've had several of our guests on the podcast talk about Traction. You both, I think, just got back from the EOS conference in Orlando. It's become a huge part of both of your lives. Melissa, I'll go to you first. How did you first get involved in EOS and how have you implemented it at the firm?
[00:04:58] Melissa Bushman: I was introduced to EOS through a Vistage group in 2015 and fell in love with it because I read about what an integrator was. It was the first time in my life that I didn't feel on the outside somewhere. I understood that there were others in the world like me, I just needed to find them. That's really what brought me to EOS was the definition of and a place, my place, at the table. I was able to bring elements of EOS into the organization I was at at the time, into other organizations I had been in. My specific experience with AltruVista is we started our EOS journey in late 2018 and we self-implemented.
In 2019, we realized that we should not have self-implemented and we should have in fact followed advice and gotten an implementer. We got an implementer and brought an implementer on board. That EOS implementer is there really just to be your guide through the operating system and teach you how to bring it into your organization. Then the integrator can own that operating system within the organization. We've been doing that for the past couple of years of working to refine what we do and how we do things in our organization using EOS.
[00:06:18] Matt Sonnen: A couple of years in, you're still working with the outside implementer?
[00:06:23] Melissa Bushman: Yes. The implementer, still work with our implementer and use them to guide us through because we started a little bit late, obviously, since we had tried self-implementing or since we had self-implemented. Not that we weren't successful self-implementing, but that's not my specialty. There are fantastic tools for people who self-implement and fantastic things to do, but there is definitely some great benefits to bringing an implementer on who is trained by EOS Worldwide in the operating system to help guide you through it, plus they just have so much knowledge across industries and companies to bring in best practices.
[00:07:03] Matt Sonnen: Yes. Kristie, why don't you share with us how you were introduced to EOS and how it's influenced your approach to work?
[00:07:12] Kristie Clayton: Yes. Very similar story to Melissa. I was transitioning my role and I found an amazing wealth management firm here in Birmingham. When I was hired, unknown to me, all of the assessments and pre-employment assessments and all the things that they were interviewing me for was for the integrator role. The position that they had posted was for an operations manager. Since that's what I had done previously, I really felt like I was a great fit. Obviously, we agreed and I was hired. The visionary called me and said, "Hey, I'm going to send you a couple of books and I really want you to read them so you know and understand how we operate our business."
Very similar to Melissa, I read the book and I'll never forget the experience. I was sitting reading the book Traction and Rocket Fuel on a Saturday. First of all, I just could not put them down because I was just so intrigued by these tools and resources that seemed so simple, but yet when you saw them all put together in the way that traction really explains it, the way that Gino really put it together, it just felt like magic. It was like, "If this really truly happens the way that the book says it is, this is going to be magic, this is going to be amazing to work in."
I'll never forget that experience of sitting there on a Saturday reading the book, and I got to the integrator role and I just cried. I sobbed. Tears were just flowing down my face. I'll never forget my husband looking at me going, "Oh, goodness, you haven't even started working yet, they're making you cry." I'm like, "No, it's not the company." I finally have an identity. I know who I am as a person now. I'm this integrator that's explained. I think, like I said previously earlier, that I've always been an integrator, it's naturally who I am.
I think that's true of most integrators. It's just naturally who we are as people, but to finally have someone define it and show us, "Hey, this is who you are," it just enlightened me and it really like, 'Finally someone has explained who I am and now I'm able to use it and work with it." For me starting at the wealth management firm, there was a plan for me that I would transition in five to seven years as the partner who was currently holding the title of integrator as she retired and phased out. What we learned is she did not GWC, she really just did not want the role as an integrator and it came so natural for me that we made that switch within seven months of my being there. By that happening, we were able to--
I love the title Rocket Fuel because it's really what it is. It just projected us forward so quickly. Having those right people in the right seats to really make things happen and following the tools, we were able to really grow exponentially. We brought on more team members, we brought on more clients. Things were just coming together in a way that we had not had happen before. It was really truly a wonderful place to be to see all of these great things coming together and happening for the firm.
[00:10:37] Matt Sonnen: Obviously, it had a big impact on you and so you've taken EOS further than just the work at your former wealth management firm. This is incredible. You went ahead and have created an international mentoring group for female integrators called FIM, Female Integrator Mastermind, F-I-M. Talk to us about that. It's really an incredible story.
[00:11:00] Kristie Clayton: It's my passion in life. Again, I had been an integrator for the firm for seven months. To be very frank and honest, I was simultaneously thrilled and terrified. I was like, "I'm so excited. I understand who I am as a person. Oh my gosh, the whole firm is on my shoulders. What do I do?" I had amazing opportunities. One of our core values at the firm was growth through knowledge and service. Whenever we had opportunities to learn or attend conferences or webinars or whatever it may be, we always try to take advantage of those.
Mark Winters, the author of Rocket Fuel with Gino Wickman, announced his very first integrator mastery form or IMF. I had an opportunity to go to that. Oh my goodness, I cannot even begin to explain how it just solidified everything for me. There were 50 integrators in a room all together. Not only did we all know EOS and we were talking the same language, and what's an L10 and JWC and all of the terminology that EOS uses, but we were talking integrator language and we were connecting really, really deeply. It was a powerful, powerful two or three days that we had together. I'm so incredibly grateful for that experience.
Then I came home and I was like, "Oh, man, I lost that sense of all my people, my tribe. I had them for a couple of days, but now I'm back home." I felt like I was on an integrator island, is what I love to call it, on an island all by myself again and I was trying to figure things out. Then a couple of months later, about nine months later, the very first EOS conference happened in Atlanta. My visionary and I went to that and that same sense of community came back where it was like, "Oh my gosh, I'm just pumped to be around the EOS community."
The EOS community really is none other than I've ever seen before. It is such a giving and caring community. They just truly just love to share, love to give, complete abundance mindset. Being in that environment was very powerful again. Then I went back home and I was like, "Man, I lost it again. I'm back on integrator island all by myself." I reached out to a few people and I said, "Hey, here's what I'm thinking. I'd really like to connect with other women integrators." At the time, I was the only female integrator here in the state of Alabama that was working with an implementer.
If I had someone to reach out to, I had a whole bunch of men that I could reach out to, but I was really wanting to connect with women. Not that men and women are right or wrong or anything like that, but I just really wanted to connect with women. I didn't have anybody. I reached out and I said, "Here's what I'm thinking. I would love to connect with a group of women integrators." We just start off at a group chat helping each other. If you have questions about how to use a tool or, gosh, how are you doing this in your business? Again, being on integrator island, people don't celebrate the same things that I get super, super excited about.
Being able to celebrate those things with people who got it, that was powerful. Five women latched onto that and we talked for about a year in a group chat with each other. Then I started dropping hints of, "Hey, what if we add more people to the group? Hey, what if we start meeting in more than just a group chat? What if we start having virtual meetings with speakers coming in? What do you all think?" At first, it's really funny, this is so true to integrator fashion, we were like, "This is working, let's not change it."
[00:14:47] Kristie Clayton: Then a couple more times I just dropped a couple of hints, "What do you all think?" Sure enough, we decided that we would assign me a couple of rocks using those EOS tools to grow the group in the number of women that we're meeting and in the way that we were meeting. To make a very, very long story short, we now have about 160-ish women. Melissa probably knows that number better than I do as the integrator of FIM. About 160-ish women that are now still have a group chat, but instead of a WhatsApp chat, it is a full-blown community. It's an app that we've built out for ourselves. Amazing conversation happens there.
We have the workshops that was the next step for us. They're monthly. We bring in leadership experts, marketing, industry experts. Just a lot of different people who are really helping us grow and better ourselves as integrators and better our companies. We now have what we call round tables or forums of 8 to 10 women that are meeting. They're really getting close and making connections with each other. They're just a 90-minute IDS session. I will tell you, there is nothing like IDS’ing with a group of integrators. It is wow, fun. Then last but not least, we have our annual summit that we do. Super excited it's coming up in Nashville this year and it's going to be the first week of November.
[00:16:22] Matt Sonnen: Kristie mentioned it. Melissa, in addition to the integrator work at AltruVista, you're the integrator of FIM. Tell us about your experience with this group.
[00:16:31] Melissa Bushman: Yes, I am the integrator of integrators, which is a very interesting role. My experience with the group, so I actually was exposed to FIM at the 2019 EOS conference in Atlanta. I went to a breakfast table where they were, and they had way too much energy and they were way too happy. There was just too much.
[00:16:55] Kristie Clayton: It might of just been me.
[00:16:56] Melissa Bushman: I might have just described Kristie, “It might have just been Kristie,” I thought.
[00:17:00] Melissa Bushman: I'm just kidding. It was too much, but when I left, I just kept getting called back because I was like, "These are my people." I did, I checked into it and I was involved for a little bit. Then I got more involved, and I just slowly got more involved. When Kristie asked me to consider the integrator role last year, I was not only honored but just really excited. One of my passions is female leadership and developing female leaders, and making sure that all women know that they have a seat at the table. It fits very well in with who I am as a person.
Man, I don't know if I can swear so I almost said a word, but there are some such amazing people in this group and they have elevated me in such a short amount of time, but just the amount of ‘we rise together’ thought is insane. It's just a great group of people. I told Kristie I would consider it and I said, "I'll join a leadership call just to see." I joined the leadership call and Kristie in a true visionary fashion was like, "Here's Melissa, she's our integrator." I was like, "Testing, no? Okay." It's just a great group of people. They're very, very like-minded and yet different experiences across the board, and they just look out for one another. It's a hard group to say no to.
[00:18:35] Matt Sonnen: Listeners to this podcast have heard me say many times that I have this huge chip on my shoulder because I have the belief that the average RIA owner views the COO role as someone who simply reboots the router from time to time. It's been my passion project to elevate the view of the COO in the eyes of the RIA industry. Kristie, when we were doing our pre-calls for this episode, you had a really interesting distinction. You said you like to teach people the difference between a chief operations officer and a chief operating officer. Talk to us about that.
[00:19:18] Kristie Clayton: Yes, I think you're right. There's so many times-- Whether you call it integrator or chief operating officer or the million other titles that are out there for the second in command, it's amazing how sometimes we do get pigeonholed to, "Oh, that's operations," and it's so much more than that. For me, a chief operating officer is someone who really owns the operations. They're in it day in day out. Yes, they might not be the person who's doing it, but they're managing the group that is flipping the switch on and off of all the things that need to be tested.
I can't tell you how many times I've been asked to do that too and it's like, "Oh, that's not the only thing I do." As a chief operating officer, though, or as an integrator, I think the benefit that we can really bring to the table is to be that liaison between the visionary and the leadership team and the team to say, "Hey, what are we doing? What is the vision? Where are we going? Let's see that picture," because sometimes it's really hard to filter that down through the team. They get whiplashed or they're not seeing the puzzle pieces. Also, sometimes I think it can be extremely overwhelming for someone who can't see all of it.
I think the real power of this particular role is to be able to say, "Hey, let's take the big vision and break it down into chunks that people can understand. Then let's make processes and procedures and let's put things in place so that we can help them see it, but also help and execute in getting it done."
Honestly, for me, one of the biggest responsibilities that I have as an integrator is to say, "Ooh, does that particular vision that you're having right now--" Because visionaries are known for having 10, 15, 20 ideas in a week. "Does that particular vision fit into the big picture right now? Should we capture that and just hold it in a little spot?" I love to call it the visionary sandbox." Are we playing with a vision right now and just testing it out and seeing what you like and don't like, or are we actually going to take action on this? If we're going to take action, does it fit into what we've said we are going to prioritize for the whole year or for this particular quarter?" Really being able to break it down and see all of that.
I think as an integrator too one of the talents that we have is to be able to see all of the things. I'm not just focused on operations and can we operationally make this happen? I'm worried about do we have the resources, the financial resources, the talent to be able to do this right now? Our advisory team, do they have everything they need to make this happen? Our marketing and our sales department, are they going to be equipped with all the things that they need? As an operating person, I'm really seeing the big picture. I'm really trying to navigate through the entire firm, not just operations in that one single siloed section.
[00:22:33] Matt Sonnen: When I'm fighting with the RIA owners, I say, "No, no, no, they're not coming from the geek squad, they're coming from the consulting world." Melissa, you literally are coming from the consulting world, your background in management consulting. Talk to us about how you've impacted just the overall strategy, not rebooting the router, but impacting the overall strategy of AltruVista.
[00:22:54] Melissa Bushman: I'm going to start, Matt, with a confession and that is I don't actually know how to reboot the router. We have a problem if I'm going to reboot the router, I'm going to have to call someone. I do come from the management consulting world. I think what I bring to the table and the difference I've made is my unique ability, and my gifts allow me to see what we're trying to create and figure out what needs to happen in order to make that happen. I tell people I think in excel, I think in buckets, I think in process. I think in how can we structure, what processes do we need, what structures do we need, what people do we need, what resources do we need to make this happen?
It is a much more strategic view, but then I am able to jump into each of the nitty-gritty areas and thought partner with our leaders or thought partner with our vendors or anything to figure out what actually needs to be done, the how of it and the nitty-gritty pieces behind it. I can straddle between strategic and tactical and figure out what we need in place, and a lot of it is just asking the right questions of the team.
One of the things that I constantly remind myself of is the answer is in the room and making sure that I'm asking the questions, especially of, again, how do I restart the router because I don't know how to do it. These types of things. I think when you bring in and if you empower and enable that person the right way, you really are getting a strategic leader who can empower you from a strategic perspective, but also make sure all the tactical is there, is in place, but I don't necessarily know how to do all of the things.
[00:24:44] Kristie Clayton: I think too, Matt, one of the gifts that we have is to be able to free the visionary or the CEO, the person who has the vision. We get to free them of being the tactical person. Give me all the things I need to know about where you want to go and then I release you of that and you go onto your next big thing so that you can bring that back to us as well.
The visionaries that I have experience with that do really, really amazing things, they're the ones that are always out with the big relationships. They're forming, they're connecting with people, they're coming up with the big ideas, and then they're turning all of the things that they don't like to do over to us because that's the things we love to do. It's a beautiful relationship when it works really well.
[00:25:38] Matt Sonnen: Early in my career my job as COO/integrator was I would sit in the partners meeting, listen to them, banter back and forth and just scribble notes and then I would walk out of there figuring out which of those we were going to do. Like you said, resource allocation, which can we do now, which can we do later. Then we got a new CEO and he plopped himself down into that partners' meeting. He looked over at me and he says, "You're not a partner, what are you doing in here?" I tried to explain to him what I was doing. He says, "No, no, no, we'll let you know what you need to know." I thought, "Oh, this just fell apart very quickly."
[00:26:13] Kristie Clayton: Wow.
[00:26:13] Matt Sonnen: Again, where that chip started to grow on my shoulder that I have now.
[00:26:19] Melissa Bushman: I can 100% understand it. I liken it to you need someone in the room who's going to then make sure everything happens, and that person needs a seat at the table and not a conversation after the conversations have happened.
[00:26:33] Matt Sonnen: Exactly.
[00:26:34] Kristie Clayton: Right. One of the things for me is people ask me about the visionary integrator relationship quite frequently because I clearly have had those my entire career. One of them I had with an operating system and it was beautiful and others, we didn't have an operating system so we really didn't know what is your role versus mine? How do we make this happen?
The way I love to describe it is it's like a dance, and it's one of two dances: You can have two partners that are dancing, but they're really truly just stepping over each other's toes. It's painful for the audience to watch, they just feel bad. They're like, "Oh my gosh, that just looks like it hurts." I don't know about you, Matt, but for me when you step on my toes enough times, it really truly does hurt and I don't want to do it anymore. I think that's what an operating system does for you is it really helps you understand, "Hey, this is your role, this is mine. Let's glide across this dance floor together. This is my dance space, this is your dance space."
That particular VI duo, when that relationship is working, man, first of all, it feels good to be in that relationship where you're just pouring into it because it feels so good, but then also the audience, everybody who's around you seeing that relationship, they're attracted to it. They want to be part of it too, and so it does become a beautiful ballroom dance that is just amazing to watch.
[00:28:09] Matt Sonnen: I love it. I love that analogy. I mentioned it at the outset, you both are doing so much, as everyone just heard, both inside and outside of your day jobs. Melissa, I'm going to go to you first. I'm sure you have some time management tips you can share with us. How do you get it all done?
[00:28:28] Melissa Bushman: I don't get it all done, I prioritize. I will say that and I tell people that all the time. Especially working in a growing company, I tell people, "If at the end of the week you've checked off everything off your to-do list, then it's not enough." It's got to be a little bit scary and we got to have enough things. It is ruthless prioritization, and so I try to have a structure to my week. I'm not afraid to say I like structure. I work better when I have a structure, so I have a structure to my week. I know when I need to be in meetings and what I need to do, I have my work time blocked.
I know when I'm devoted to my outside stuff, when I'm devoted to my family, when I'm devoted to AltruVista, when I have FIM time. I'm also a girl scout troop leader. I know when I'm doing that work. For me, I sit down and I do weekly planning. Usually on Sunday nights, I sit down, I know what my priorities are for the week. Priorities are the things you need to get done, it's not like a ranking order and you can have 15 priorities. It really is, for me, what are my top three priorities for the week? I usually have about a half page left of a to-do list. I tell people once I fill that to-do list up in meetings for the week, I'm done for the week. I can't do more than a half.
I can't do more than that during the week and I start pushing things, but I do. Every morning, I have blocked time to do communication. I try really, really hard not to let email and tasks drive my day. That's a huge thing I've learned in the past eight years. I'm not in my inbox every day. I don't have an executive assistant. I'm not in my inbox every minute of every day. I will prioritize my day. If things need to shift, I will shift them and that's really what it is. I try to let everybody know ruthless prioritization is how I do it. Make sure you have a plan. If you don't think you need a plan, you do actually still need a plan.
It just might not be a structured of a plan as somebody like me needs, but I think everybody needs a plan and everybody needs to know what their priorities are for the week. Those are the two foundational things that I do from a time-management standpoint. I'm pretty strict with my time. If I'm going into a meeting and the meeting is from 8:00 to 9:00, I start the meeting at eight o'clock and I try to end it by 8:55. EOS teaches a principal, start on time, end on time. I'm a firm believer in that well before I even learn about EOS. I don't like it when I'm late to meetings. I don't like it when people are late to meetings. That's really how I keep it too, is really try to keep my schedule to where it needs to be. I put some buffer time in there. I do not like back-to-back meetings. Otherwise, I can't go to the restroom when I need to, or I get really hungry because I can't get food. I don't mind grabbing lunch in 15 minutes, but I got to at least be able to grab lunch.
Those are the things I do, actually. At the end of every month, I go back through my calendar and I clear everything out. I take all the tasks that didn't get done, I put them in a bucket, and I'm like, "All right, what needs to get done this month? What slid?" I'm like, "Oh, shoot. Now I have a problem." That way also when I look back on my calendar, it's clear and I'm not going back in November and going, "Oh, I knew I was supposed to do something in March, but I didn't do it." That helps me plan my month in quarters as well.
[00:31:57] Matt Sonnen: Kristie, how do you manage your never-ending to-do list?
[00:32:02] Kristie Clayton: I think Melissa's right. I love the terminology, Kathy Mayfield I think is the first person I heard say it, ruthless prioritization. For me, there's really four major things that I do. I agree with Melissa. Now that I'm the integrator for two companies, The Visionary Forum and iMatter, and I'm the visionary for FIM, it's really important to me that I make sure that I'm blocking my calendar to give plenty of time for all of those things, and then also for my family and just to have a personal life too. Block scheduling is a huge thing for me. My assistant that works with me, she knows if you're scheduling something for me, please make sure you put it in these buckets. That way I can focus.
When I get into that timeframe, I know from this time to this time I am working on this and this alone. It really, really helps me to stay focused and to accomplish everything that I have to. I'm huge on task lists. I have a list for everything. My husband makes fun of me because I have a thorough list when I am packing to go on vacation. Everything has a list. I really stay very, very strict to that list. I make sure that what I'm accomplishing is getting prioritized. The list is always in order of what is the most important thing for me to accomplish down to the very, very bottom of if it gets done, great, if it doesn't, it's not the end of the world. It's just one of those things I want to get done.
Very similar to Melissa, every day I'm moving it forward and looking to see like, "Gosh, what was on the priority list that didn't get done and now I need to reexamine that?" Lists are huge for me.
A little bit different than Melissa, I am a zero inbox person. I am very, very lucky that I have an amazing assistant that she is my lifeline. She is so incredibly important to everything that I do. She keeps my email inbox down to a zero.
I have a folder within my emails that these are the emails that you're looking at. Don't look at all the other ones, just look at these. That really helps me stay very focused. I really truly think one of the biggest things that I do, and it's an EOS tool that really teaches us how to bring everything together, is a clarity break. I walk into about a two-hour timeframe where I literally have a pen and paper, which I now am using my reMarkable.
I love that tool. It's just me, my reMarkable, and all of my thoughts that I just pour out. It can be, "Oh my gosh, you need to check on this," or, "You haven't touched this in a while and so you really need to look into that," versus things that I want to explore, versus things that I need to get done. That two-hour timeframe, every single week to just sit with my thoughts, what I'm wanting to do, things that I need to contemplate, things I need to get done, prioritize, it really, really does help me bring it to together.
I personally do mine every Friday so that I can wrap up my week with, "Gosh, in order for me to walk away this week feeling really successful, what are the two or three things that I need to get done today and what else can wait till next week?" It just brings closure for me to that particular week so that I know I'm walking away every single week being successful. If I don't, I also find that I have to give myself grace and forgiveness that you got two of the three done, next week you just need to make sure number three is number one.
[00:35:47] Matt Sonnen: I just can't comprehend the inbox zero people. I'm just looking now.
[00:35:52] Matt Sonnen: I'm proud I have 661 items in my inbox when I'm not proud that 193 of them are unread.
[00:36:02] Melissa Bushman: My version of in the box zero is I have zero unread messages in my inbox. That's my version of it.
[00:36:10] Kristie Clayton: Sometimes what I'll do so that it's a zero inbox is that email may become a to-do. It may be a task that I need to get done, and so I'm taking it out of the email and putting it on the list.
[00:36:26] Matt Sonnen: Another area that we talk a lot on this podcast about, the role of the COO/integrator in the typical RIA role, there's the operations operating portion of it, the tech stack, of course, and then there's HR. We recently wrote an article for wealth management.com. We titled it Beyond Embarrassing: Employee Onboarding Needs to Improve in the RIA Industry. In that article, we discussed not only onboarding but the need for better training and career pathing in our industry. I think it can be quite horrendous in some circumstances. You both have done a lot of work in this area. Melissa, why don't you go first, tell us what you've done to address the career pathing training, et cetera.
[00:37:17] Melissa Bushman: I totally agree with everything you just said. We have put a large amount of work towards employee onboarding. Just in general, as an organization, onboarding folks to our organization, what we do, how we do it, who we do it for. I tell everyone when they join the first two weeks, I'm like, "I don't need you to jump in and be a hero and save anything. I just need you to just sit back and immerse yourself on our culture." For us, a huge piece of our onboarding is immersing yourself and understanding our people and our culture. I think that's one of the things I did when I first joined the organization was figuring out onboarding and how we did this and whatnot.
I work with an amazing operations coordinator and she manages all of our onboarding and innovates within that process so they get gifts before they start. When they join the team, they meet with everybody on the team and get to know everyone and what they're doing. It really is a great process to get them in and get them knowing about what we're doing. Then I do agree that the key to retaining your top talent is to provide them that vision, that path and provide them the training and the development they need to continue to grow and develop within your organization because the fact of the matter is if you're not doing that, someone is going to provide that for them and they are going to leave.
We've done a large amount of work on career pathing. I can tell you that one of my chips on my shoulders after being in this industry five years is I feel like this industry does a great job of career pathing for advisors. I do not feel this industry does a great job of career pathing for anybody other than advisors. That is a big piece of what we've tried to do is figure out how do you keep non-advisor talent because it's so critical that you keep them. How do you keep them and provide growth paths for them if they don't want to get a CFP and they don't want to be an advisor, and they're not "just operations" or something like that?
I think that is something that as organizations, you set yourself apart if you do that. Providing those client experience routes, providing the portfolio management routes, providing the marketing routes. Even in the business development world, I've seen a shift for non-CFP business development. I think we as our organization did professional development plans. Right as COVID was happening, we were rolling those out just so folks had some career pathing. Then we were super honest with people when we didn't have a benchmark to go up against and say, "This industry doesn't really give us a great career path for you so we're going to have to work with you on it. Let's pull in some external resources."
This year one of our big pushes is as things were opening back up was everyone get external. Find yourself an external networking group or an external teaching group, whether that's a Vistage. For me, it was a FIM. FPAs. Something that gets you outside because that's how you drive a lot of growth is you get outside, learn what others are doing to your same problems, figure out how you can apply what they're doing, and come back in.
That to me is a huge piece of growth in those platforms. We do book clubs as an organization. We try to do trainings around a lot of those personality profiles and things as an organization. Then there's just a huge amount of we're very lucky in that our CEO loves to coach and mentor, and so we get that within our organization as well. Hopefully, that answered your question.
[00:40:57] Matt Sonnen: No, absolutely. My frustration, we talked about a little bit in that article that I mentioned, RIAs are relatively small organizations, 20 people, maybe less, and so rightfully so, everyone's so protective of their culture. They think, "Man, adding the 16th employee as opposed to adding the 6,016th employee, this is going to really affect our culture." You put these poor candidates through the wringer during the interview process, "We need you to take three personality tests and we need to make sure you're going to be a fit."
Then they go through this months-long process, and then day one, it's, "Hey, we haven't quite set up your desk yet. Why don't you plug your computer in - we might get to you by lunch? Not sure because we're all pretty busy and we all waited way too long to hire, and so we're all swamped and stuck with our own work. We might get to you." It's just such a letdown for these poor candidates that are coming in so excited to join this organization that just put them through the wringer.
[00:41:54] Melissa Bushman: I totally agree. Not only is it a letdown, but I am sure that then they're like, "How is the rest of this going to be? What does the rest of my future look like if you haven't figured out my first week? I don't even know where I'm supposed to park on the first day. What are you talking about?" Having a plan for folks, and that's the thing, it sets the stage.
You want them to feel welcome and so that is one of the things of that is my operations coordinator, that's one of the things she introduced in the process is this welcome box that they get before they even join the organization, or if it's on their desk when they get there. She is uber-protective of that new hire experience and very much of, "You will have your equipment. You will have an office space." We do write welcome to the team outside the office. It's those little touches that you want them to feel welcome and special, and you want them to not spend the first day questioning their decision.
[00:42:46] Matt Sonnen: Yes. Kristie, you've done a ton of work in this area too. Talk to us about your experience with career pathing training, et cetera.
[00:42:54] Kristie Clayton: I think, first of all, just complete validation for what you're both saying. It is one of things that we don't think about. For me, the onboarding process really starts much earlier than even the interviewing. It is thinking through what you said, Matt, not waiting until we're so busy that we have to have a person. I truly believe that when you're at 80% capacity, you need to start having conversations about when are we bringing in a new person because we're getting there. Preparing the job description, preparing for interviews, all of those things, getting it on the calendar as soon as you've identified we are getting really close to a new hire need. I totally agree.
I love sending a letter that comes directly from me that shares with them what parking's going to look like, what they need to bring on their first day. Then we send a copy of the book What the Heck is EOS and explain to them, "You need to understand how our company works. This is a great foundational book for how it works." Those two things have been really, really great. We send a care package from the entire team. When the person gets there, there's an entire experience that's happening.
They go around, they get to meet everybody, tour the office. We give them pointers on what restaurants are in the area, which ones take longer. If you're crunched for time, be careful not to go to these places. These places are really, really great. We have another gift that is ready waiting for them on their desk that is things for their desk. Mouse pad and pens and all those kind of things, but it's in a gift package so that they really feel like these are the foundational things that we are providing to you, and whatever you want additional to that, just let us know.
One of the other things for me, though, is with the onboarding process is it's not just about the person who's joining the team, it's about their family too. We are really conscious and aware that on that person's first day, we're delivering a gift to their spouse as well. We've delivered care packages to them. If they have children, we send logoed onesie or an item to them as well, so that they feel like they're welcomed into our family just like that person is. I agree with Melissa, we have career ladders that we've built out, and I totally agree that the advisory part of our industry has things that are beautifully written for them.
We've taken a lot of time to do that with operations as well because it is important for them as well. If you want your people to stay, they need to see their growth in their career path as well, not just the advisory team. One of the tools that I love that EOS teaches us is quarterly conversations. Instead of just waiting to have an annual review and look back at the entire year and be like, "Hey, this is where you did great, and this is where you need to improve," it's more frequent, it's quarterly.
So that, “Man, I'm hearing from my manager where my strengths are, where I can continue to improve,” and I think that's really important as a part of the onboarding process too. We explain that to them. These are not things that are here to hurt you, they're actually really here to help you and develop you. By setting that stage at the very beginning, you invite people to be in, to be part of that career ladder, to be part of their development. I think that's really, really important.
The last thing I'll say about this really too is for me personally, someone's first day is just as important as their last day. Making them feel like, "Hey, the work that you did here is amazing and we are so incredibly grateful and appreciative of what you did," goes a long way. As they're departing and going somewhere else, regardless of where that somewhere else is, they will always remember the experience they had on that very last day.
[00:47:01] Matt Sonnen: Let's do a very quick book report because clearly, I know Traction. Like I said, several people have brought that up. I have not read, but I know of Rocket Fuel, but I didn't know there was one called What the Heck is EOS. Obviously, Traction is the basis of it, but tell me a little bit about what the difference is between those three books.
[00:47:25] Kristie Clayton: Traction explains EOS, the actual operating system, and it's a perfect book for the entire leadership team to read. We sometimes, depending on the person, will have other team members read it as well. Rocket Fuel is an amazing for the visionary and the integrator to really know and understand those two relationships. There is What the Heck is EOS, and that is an amazing tool for your employees who are not necessarily leadership and so they don't need to dive as deep into Traction, but it gives them the foundation.
What are L10s and what is this verbiage and what is this thing that I keep hearing about? It solidifies it for them. There's also a couple of other books. There is How to Be a Great Boss. That is a really, really good book for managers who are really learning how to be a great manager. Amazing tools and resources that are in it. Then the other one is.. umm
[00:48:31] Melissa Bushman: Get A Grip.
[00:48:31] Kristie Clayton: Get A Grip. Sorry, Melissa, you want to explain that one?
[00:48:33] Melissa Bushman: No, I was just filling in your sentences.
[00:48:37] Kristie Clayton: Great integrator fills in--
[00:48:41] Melissa Bushman: It's the entrepreneurial fable, Get A Grip is.
[00:48:44] Kristie Clayton: Yes. It's the fable of EOS and how it can happen. Oh, and I almost forgot. The new book that just got launched this last year is the EOS Life. It's really truly like how you live your optimized life? It shows you the tools and resources from EOS that allow you to live that optimized life. Then they have a couple more that are going to be coming out this year and next year. One of them is on process. As an integrator, I'm like, "Oh."
[00:49:11] Melissa Bushman: I'm so excited. My visionary and I at AltruVista and I did a call with Mike Paton and Lisa Gonzalez who are writing process. I'm so excited because I love process.
[00:49:23] Kristie Clayton: Yes.
[00:49:24] Melissa Bushman: They've got a book on it that's coming out, I think, in September of this year.
[00:49:29] Matt Sonnen: That's super helpful. We've got a lot of readers. Our listeners, everybody loves books, so all of those were very helpful. Thank you for running through those.
[00:49:38] Kristie Clayton: Absolutely.
[00:49:39] Matt Sonnen: This has been an amazing conversation. I am so impressed with both of you. I can't believe what you've built with FIM. I hope we found you a few new members today as well, so we'll link to the website as part of the notes for this. Hopefully, people will be reaching out for some more information there. Kristie, Melissa, thank you so much for being here.
[00:50:00] Kristie Clayton: Thank you for having us. This has been a lot of fun.
[00:50:03] Melissa Bushman: Yes. Thank you, Matt, for having us. Sorry that we were so difficult to get scheduled for you.
[00:50:08] Matt Sonnen: No problem, no problem. That is a wrap for episode 42. Thanks, everyone, for listening. Apparently, COVID is not completely behind us, so everybody stay safe out there. We will talk to you soon.
